Some (MOAR) Stuff About Delicious
Sep. 27th, 2011 08:56 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
drunkoffthestars1. THE FAINTEST RAY OF HOPE.
So, while I find other explanations much more likely and plausible, given my experience over the last 10 years with the internet, there are some more benign and hopeful responsibilities for why delicious has suddenly turned into such a shitshow.
Apparently, when Yahoo! bought del.icio.us, they
Assuming this is true, and assuming that Yahoo! wanted to, dump Delicious asap, and wasn't interested in licensing the technology (or the buyers weren't interested in paying for it), that means that they've been re-writing Delicious from scratch and this is as far as they've gotten by Yahoo!'s deadline. And I'm not the only one who has come up with this, so that's something?
And of course, if they're re-writing everything, it isn't going to be nearly as well tested as older code, so of course there are going to be about a bajillion errors (though that doesn't excuse the 'not escaping special characters, particularly the /' (assuming that was not an act of malice to get rid of users who do not fit their target demographic/usage group).
They do have a list of 'future features' that are supposed to exist at some point in the future, and I think if those features do end up happening, that'll take care of 90% of the complaints, and everything will be sunshine and roses! Yay!
2. MAKING THE SHITSHOW WORK FOR YOU
Even assuming I am 100% wrong about the above, there are still a few things you can do to save your precious precious data (assuming you can log in).
- The import/export tool is still working! It will export the URI, Title, comments, and tags as an HTML document. WARNING DO NOT FREAK OUT when you open the file and your tags aren't there. For whatever reason, the tags are not displayed, but they do continue to exist in the source code of the file. Right click and you can see for yourself.
The down side is that whatever transition wonkiness is happening has destroyed the exporter's ability to properly export the date the bookmark was saved. I exported successfully this morning, but all the dates were the past few days. /o\ I have a backup from December that has the right dates *thank $deity*, but you are kinda SOL if you don't, unless you want to start doing some really fun stuff by hand.
(is it legit to ETA things you haven't managed to hit post on yet?) ETA: there is maybe a workaround script to export your delicious bookmarks with the correct date info: https://gist.github.com/1246220
Do not even ask me how to run that shit, but it is my next fun project after I finish writing this, so I'll post about it if I actually get it to work.
- Another way to get at your bookmarks is via the API.seperis explains here. This gives you an XML file with all your data nicely in place, though fuck if I know what to do with it after that.
- A third way to get at things, and it doesn't go back very fall, and doesn't display tags (as far as I can tell) is to access the fixed RSS feeds. If you go to your Delicious page (delicious.com/USERNAME) and look under the stupid animal picture, right under the bookmark count should be a working link to the RSS feed of your bookmarks. The private one worked for me in Google Reader, but not the public one (though both displayed bookmarks and comments when I opened them in firefox), so IDK. It's a thing?
- And finally, if you missed the transfer cutoff or are otherwise missing bookmarks, there is maybe a cheat-y workaround to try and get in and get some stuff. I have no idea if it works, or exactly what he's telling you to do, but all the shots are worth it.
3. ALTERNATIVES
I'm not gonna lie guys. It's a bit bleak.
- TOP CONTENDER:Write our own Pinboard.in
It is the most delicious-like of all the alternatives, it has the option to create a network of users whose bookmarks you want to see, and it has some other sweet features.
CONS:
a. There is an ~$10 one-time buy in, which I don't see a critical mass of folks going for, but is pretty minimal in the grand scheme of things.
b. There is no tag subscriptions as yet, and it is really weak on the whole 'finding other users who are bookmarking things that are relevant' thing, but the dude(s)? who run it seem pretty open to suggestions/improvements / ideas / etc (grains of salt, etc)
- NEXT UP: Diigo
I am not gonna lie. I don't really like this option, but it's free! It is aimed at 'educational' users, so their set up isn't really good for what fandom uses Delicous for. Also, they may or may not have started automatically marking private links that go to 'porn content'. So, uh, that's going to work out real well for the sharing aspect, not to mention fandom in general. (And I'm not even going to get into how stupid I find censorship of the web for kiddies, but it is entirely possible that they're involved in some government thing that requires them to, even though that one commenter sounds like exactly the sort of pompous douche who would advocates for censorship even when not required).
Pros: easy to import, does do / but does import as _ for easy searching, etc, can make 'lists' of users, does networking, free, there is already a group for finding other fanish people.
Cons: The porn thing, clunky as all get out, doesn't do the /, no tag bundles, no tag subscriptions, I somehow get the feeling that a sudden influx of fans would not/is not met with much delight there.
- Google Bookmarks?
Idk, supposedly you can import from delicious, but I stared at the page for like 5 minutes and it wasn't obvious how, so maybe someone else can say how to do it. It is supposed to allow for public lists, which is good. I really doubt the existence of tag subscriptions, but there maybe are user subscriptions? I didn't see those, but I wasn't looking for time.
Pros: Google, so unlikely to go down anytime soon (sortof), you are probably already logged in all the time? uh, there might be a bookmarklet?
Cons: If you are a freak like me: lots of logging in and out of various google accounts to make sure you are saving things to the right account. Looks like it is built much more for private link collection rather than sharing shares, but who the fuck knows.
In between being sad about how everything is terrible and everything hurts, /report does a nice rundown of the main delicious alternatives. Basically there are a bunch of them, none of them do what Delicious did, etc etc etc.
- AO3
They've been tossed around as a replacement, and is set up to accept fic bookmarks both on and off AO3, and they at least HAVE a bookmarking function, but as much as I love them as a fic archive (OMG DOWNLOAD EBOOKS GIVE ME THEM ALL), I sort of hate their bookmarking function and quite literally tried it once and never went back. That said, they are prioritizing bookmark improvement and asking for suggestions, and I believe that they could eventually turn it into a really nice and useful thing. However, this is not really a 'true' replacement, in a few ways, the biggest of which is that it is only for fic. I mean, that's 90% of what I use delicious for, but I also have a non-fandom delicious account that I use for the rest of my interests and my life. Also, I find their approach to tag browsing clunky at best, and even worse for the bookmarks.
4. ANOTHER (DISTANT) OPTION. BUILD IT OURSELVES.
Mentioned at the end of /REPORT, they mention possibly building our own delicious replacement, and a part of me (the part that has NO EARTHLY CLUE HOW TO DO ANYTHING REQUIRED FOR SUCH A THING) thinks that is a really good idea. I've seen (and promptly lost the links) such things mentioned elsewhere, and the idea was flying around quite a bit during the last round of YAHOO VS DELICIOUS DEATHMATCH, so if anyone is interested in contributing to such a project, and/or interested in holding my hand while I learn how to program things and spectacularly fuck some shit out trying to build such a thing, report for duty? idek, but as much as I like pinboard, I sort of want the kind of security that AO3 has for fic. I also want something free so everyone can come play. And while I have no idea what other people are imagining, I'm thinking something that is NOT a fic-specific service, but is like dreamwidth. Fan-serving and fan-inspired, but useful for non-fanish types too.
5. FINDING THE LOST NETWORK
Ok, this is a tiny bit beautiful. Google spreadsheet for finding where the folks on your network are/are going. Well over 5,000 ppl have accessed, though only ~100 have entered any info (understandable, it was RT'd by the Pinboard twitter), but people! You can find them!
6. COMMENTARY I HAVE NOT SEEN ELSEWHERE RE: THE NEXT BIG THING IN THE TECH WORLD
So, there has been a thing I have not seen much mentioned in the LJ-verse re: delicious, and that is how the 'Stacks' concept aligns freaky-well with what has apparently been a sleeper-hit on the social bookmarking scene: Pinboards on Pinterest.
The reason for the sleeper-ness if it's hit-ness? At least according to this website:
Yeah, why would a tech sector dude ever pay attention to what the ~~ladies~ are doing. Everyone knows it is boring as fuck! /i hate the world and everyone in it especially dudes who build websites hoping to be the 'next big thing'
Anywho, Pinterest is a TERRIBLE model for the fic-saving-and-sharing community just because it is so image-dependent. (Srsly, I have a pinterest account, you can only post pictures. Commentary on pictures if you want, but only pictures) And I wouldn't mind if fandom took a step into doing more fan-art, especially fan-art that specifically goes with stories (ebook covers yayeeeee! /obsesssion), but at the current moment, NOT REALLY WORKABLE. And that is really really really what the whole 'Stacks' thing is trying to be.
Also, the emphasis really is on single-categories (Ie, My Personal Style, Recipes To Try), not multiple tags (Dresses, shirts, shoes, chicken, vegetarian, rice). Theoretically you can add tags on Pinterest via the # symbol, but hardly anyone does, because that is not what the site is built to do.
So, I don't really have any sort of conclusion as to what to do about it, but it is certainly what someone has decided is the Next Big Thing in social bookmarking/social networking. There are actually a bazillion little startups focusing on the same idea, a few of which have even been tossed around as delicious alternatives (like Zootool).
(and a quick aside for anyone who wants to check out Pinterest: it is actually pretty cool, and pretty heavy on the DIY/Design/mommyblogger end of the internet, which is mostly awesome, but sometimes terrifying and enraging. If you visit the 'everything' page in between the beautiful house and landscape pictures and the cool diy projects, you will regularly be bombarded with 'thinspiration' images, bible quotes, religious 'inspirational sayings', and plenty of misogynist drivel about love, marriage, relationships, and child-rearing. If you are anything like me, this will make you want to punch someone in the face. I'm doitninetimes there. :D )
7. OTHER PEOPLE SAYING THINGS THAT I FIND RELEVANT
If you would like to cry a little bit on the inside (or hey, maybe on the outside too), check out the comparison of what it used to look like, and what it has become. Read it and weep.
And I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the new page design makes it look like delicious is for toddlers.
There was a post on twitter that I can no longer find about buying other people pinboard accounts. Basically you just have to ask the Pinboard dude and he'll do it. There was some talk of setting up a group of people who could chip in, but I've missed the rest of it.
8. MISC LINKSPAM
frombookshop/![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
bookshop
Delicious (DW, LJ)
Social bookmarking updates (DW, LJ)
What non-fans have to say about it: basically it sucks.
A fun use for the new 'Stacks' function: A Stack All About How The New Delicious Suck (for bonus hilarity, enjoy the 'similar' staks next to it all about the same thing! Of note: once you put a link in a stack, you can private the link, but the link will still be public via the stack.
Other people were also power-users of delicious and hate the new changes. But I question his judgement when he calls the 'default avatar' (he got the badger) 'cool'.
Terrible for fic-saving, but kind of cute: bagcheck.com I love the little superhero/ninja's on the front page. But I hate being forced into using facebook or twitter to sign up for things.
So, while I find other explanations much more likely and plausible, given my experience over the last 10 years with the internet, there are some more benign and hopeful responsibilities for why delicious has suddenly turned into such a shitshow.
Apparently, when Yahoo! bought del.icio.us, they
"rebuilt the entire infrastructure to deeply leverage a number of internal Yahoo technologies. It’s all great stuff but not exactly easy to remove or replace. Yahoo may have to license some of this technology to the buyer. I’m not sure they’ve done that before."
Assuming this is true, and assuming that Yahoo! wanted to, dump Delicious asap, and wasn't interested in licensing the technology (or the buyers weren't interested in paying for it), that means that they've been re-writing Delicious from scratch and this is as far as they've gotten by Yahoo!'s deadline. And I'm not the only one who has come up with this, so that's something?
And of course, if they're re-writing everything, it isn't going to be nearly as well tested as older code, so of course there are going to be about a bajillion errors (though that doesn't excuse the 'not escaping special characters, particularly the /' (assuming that was not an act of malice to get rid of users who do not fit their target demographic/usage group).
They do have a list of 'future features' that are supposed to exist at some point in the future, and I think if those features do end up happening, that'll take care of 90% of the complaints, and everything will be sunshine and roses! Yay!
2. MAKING THE SHITSHOW WORK FOR YOU
Even assuming I am 100% wrong about the above, there are still a few things you can do to save your precious precious data (assuming you can log in).
- The import/export tool is still working! It will export the URI, Title, comments, and tags as an HTML document. WARNING DO NOT FREAK OUT when you open the file and your tags aren't there. For whatever reason, the tags are not displayed, but they do continue to exist in the source code of the file. Right click and you can see for yourself.
The down side is that whatever transition wonkiness is happening has destroyed the exporter's ability to properly export the date the bookmark was saved. I exported successfully this morning, but all the dates were the past few days. /o\ I have a backup from December that has the right dates *thank $deity*, but you are kinda SOL if you don't, unless you want to start doing some really fun stuff by hand.
(is it legit to ETA things you haven't managed to hit post on yet?) ETA: there is maybe a workaround script to export your delicious bookmarks with the correct date info: https://gist.github.com/1246220
Do not even ask me how to run that shit, but it is my next fun project after I finish writing this, so I'll post about it if I actually get it to work.
- Another way to get at your bookmarks is via the API.
seperis explains here. This gives you an XML file with all your data nicely in place, though fuck if I know what to do with it after that.- A third way to get at things, and it doesn't go back very fall, and doesn't display tags (as far as I can tell) is to access the fixed RSS feeds. If you go to your Delicious page (delicious.com/USERNAME) and look under the stupid animal picture, right under the bookmark count should be a working link to the RSS feed of your bookmarks. The private one worked for me in Google Reader, but not the public one (though both displayed bookmarks and comments when I opened them in firefox), so IDK. It's a thing?
- And finally, if you missed the transfer cutoff or are otherwise missing bookmarks, there is maybe a cheat-y workaround to try and get in and get some stuff. I have no idea if it works, or exactly what he's telling you to do, but all the shots are worth it.
3. ALTERNATIVES
I'm not gonna lie guys. It's a bit bleak.
- TOP CONTENDER:
It is the most delicious-like of all the alternatives, it has the option to create a network of users whose bookmarks you want to see, and it has some other sweet features.
CONS:
a. There is an ~$10 one-time buy in, which I don't see a critical mass of folks going for, but is pretty minimal in the grand scheme of things.
b. There is no tag subscriptions as yet, and it is really weak on the whole 'finding other users who are bookmarking things that are relevant' thing, but the dude(s)? who run it seem pretty open to suggestions/improvements / ideas / etc (grains of salt, etc)
- NEXT UP: Diigo
I am not gonna lie. I don't really like this option, but it's free! It is aimed at 'educational' users, so their set up isn't really good for what fandom uses Delicous for. Also, they may or may not have started automatically marking private links that go to 'porn content'. So, uh, that's going to work out real well for the sharing aspect, not to mention fandom in general. (And I'm not even going to get into how stupid I find censorship of the web for kiddies, but it is entirely possible that they're involved in some government thing that requires them to, even though that one commenter sounds like exactly the sort of pompous douche who would advocates for censorship even when not required).
Pros: easy to import, does do / but does import as _ for easy searching, etc, can make 'lists' of users, does networking, free, there is already a group for finding other fanish people.
Cons: The porn thing, clunky as all get out, doesn't do the /, no tag bundles, no tag subscriptions, I somehow get the feeling that a sudden influx of fans would not/is not met with much delight there.
- Google Bookmarks?
Idk, supposedly you can import from delicious, but I stared at the page for like 5 minutes and it wasn't obvious how, so maybe someone else can say how to do it. It is supposed to allow for public lists, which is good. I really doubt the existence of tag subscriptions, but there maybe are user subscriptions? I didn't see those, but I wasn't looking for time.
Pros: Google, so unlikely to go down anytime soon (sortof), you are probably already logged in all the time? uh, there might be a bookmarklet?
Cons: If you are a freak like me: lots of logging in and out of various google accounts to make sure you are saving things to the right account. Looks like it is built much more for private link collection rather than sharing shares, but who the fuck knows.
In between being sad about how everything is terrible and everything hurts, /report does a nice rundown of the main delicious alternatives. Basically there are a bunch of them, none of them do what Delicious did, etc etc etc.
- AO3
They've been tossed around as a replacement, and is set up to accept fic bookmarks both on and off AO3, and they at least HAVE a bookmarking function, but as much as I love them as a fic archive (OMG DOWNLOAD EBOOKS GIVE ME THEM ALL), I sort of hate their bookmarking function and quite literally tried it once and never went back. That said, they are prioritizing bookmark improvement and asking for suggestions, and I believe that they could eventually turn it into a really nice and useful thing. However, this is not really a 'true' replacement, in a few ways, the biggest of which is that it is only for fic. I mean, that's 90% of what I use delicious for, but I also have a non-fandom delicious account that I use for the rest of my interests and my life. Also, I find their approach to tag browsing clunky at best, and even worse for the bookmarks.
4. ANOTHER (DISTANT) OPTION. BUILD IT OURSELVES.
Mentioned at the end of /REPORT, they mention possibly building our own delicious replacement, and a part of me (the part that has NO EARTHLY CLUE HOW TO DO ANYTHING REQUIRED FOR SUCH A THING) thinks that is a really good idea. I've seen (and promptly lost the links) such things mentioned elsewhere, and the idea was flying around quite a bit during the last round of YAHOO VS DELICIOUS DEATHMATCH, so if anyone is interested in contributing to such a project, and/or interested in holding my hand while I learn how to program things and spectacularly fuck some shit out trying to build such a thing, report for duty? idek, but as much as I like pinboard, I sort of want the kind of security that AO3 has for fic. I also want something free so everyone can come play. And while I have no idea what other people are imagining, I'm thinking something that is NOT a fic-specific service, but is like dreamwidth. Fan-serving and fan-inspired, but useful for non-fanish types too.
5. FINDING THE LOST NETWORK
Ok, this is a tiny bit beautiful. Google spreadsheet for finding where the folks on your network are/are going. Well over 5,000 ppl have accessed, though only ~100 have entered any info (understandable, it was RT'd by the Pinboard twitter), but people! You can find them!
6. COMMENTARY I HAVE NOT SEEN ELSEWHERE RE: THE NEXT BIG THING IN THE TECH WORLD
So, there has been a thing I have not seen much mentioned in the LJ-verse re: delicious, and that is how the 'Stacks' concept aligns freaky-well with what has apparently been a sleeper-hit on the social bookmarking scene: Pinboards on Pinterest.
The reason for the sleeper-ness if it's hit-ness? At least according to this website:
Pinterest hasn't gotten a lot of press before, though. That could be because it's a visual bookmarking site used primarily by women (apparently) , and the male-dominated tech press is just less likely to notice success in that sector.
Yeah, why would a tech sector dude ever pay attention to what the ~~ladies~ are doing. Everyone knows it is boring as fuck! /i hate the world and everyone in it especially dudes who build websites hoping to be the 'next big thing'
Anywho, Pinterest is a TERRIBLE model for the fic-saving-and-sharing community just because it is so image-dependent. (Srsly, I have a pinterest account, you can only post pictures. Commentary on pictures if you want, but only pictures) And I wouldn't mind if fandom took a step into doing more fan-art, especially fan-art that specifically goes with stories (ebook covers yayeeeee! /obsesssion), but at the current moment, NOT REALLY WORKABLE. And that is really really really what the whole 'Stacks' thing is trying to be.
Also, the emphasis really is on single-categories (Ie, My Personal Style, Recipes To Try), not multiple tags (Dresses, shirts, shoes, chicken, vegetarian, rice). Theoretically you can add tags on Pinterest via the # symbol, but hardly anyone does, because that is not what the site is built to do.
So, I don't really have any sort of conclusion as to what to do about it, but it is certainly what someone has decided is the Next Big Thing in social bookmarking/social networking. There are actually a bazillion little startups focusing on the same idea, a few of which have even been tossed around as delicious alternatives (like Zootool).
(and a quick aside for anyone who wants to check out Pinterest: it is actually pretty cool, and pretty heavy on the DIY/Design/mommyblogger end of the internet, which is mostly awesome, but sometimes terrifying and enraging. If you visit the 'everything' page in between the beautiful house and landscape pictures and the cool diy projects, you will regularly be bombarded with 'thinspiration' images, bible quotes, religious 'inspirational sayings', and plenty of misogynist drivel about love, marriage, relationships, and child-rearing. If you are anything like me, this will make you want to punch someone in the face. I'm doitninetimes there. :D )
7. OTHER PEOPLE SAYING THINGS THAT I FIND RELEVANT
If you would like to cry a little bit on the inside (or hey, maybe on the outside too), check out the comparison of what it used to look like, and what it has become. Read it and weep.
And I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the new page design makes it look like delicious is for toddlers.
You're really rocking the "website designed for young children without much dexterity" look
There was a post on twitter that I can no longer find about buying other people pinboard accounts. Basically you just have to ask the Pinboard dude and he'll do it. There was some talk of setting up a group of people who could chip in, but I've missed the rest of it.
8. MISC LINKSPAM
from
bookshop/bookshopDelicious (DW, LJ)
Social bookmarking updates (DW, LJ)
What non-fans have to say about it: basically it sucks.
A fun use for the new 'Stacks' function: A Stack All About How The New Delicious Suck (for bonus hilarity, enjoy the 'similar' staks next to it all about the same thing! Of note: once you put a link in a stack, you can private the link, but the link will still be public via the stack.
Other people were also power-users of delicious and hate the new changes. But I question his judgement when he calls the 'default avatar' (he got the badger) 'cool'.
Terrible for fic-saving, but kind of cute: bagcheck.com I love the little superhero/ninja's on the front page. But I hate being forced into using facebook or twitter to sign up for things.
