I am wearing my "kind of an asshole" hat, isn't it pretty?

[drunkoffthestars]

BANDFLESH - I DON'T GET WHAT THE FUSS IS.

at first, I didn't get what the community was doing, then I thought it was boring, and now I kinda get why it would be entertaining (though I myself do not have a million hours to go capslock about peebabies and Teh Peen). I still haven't seen a link to the OMGRACISM (that I think started the whole to-do), and I have yet to find the bits where they SAY MEAN THINGS, so I remain utterly in the dark about why exactly there so much anti-bandflesh sentiment. Um? Yeah, I guess maybe I'd feel a little different if I was told that people were SAYING MEAN THINGS about me there, but... I dunno. I sort of feel like it is the *internet*. That's were people go to say mean things! And besides, the actual comm itself seems fairly harmless to me?

I guess I just see a difference between the way anonymity is used there and the way it is used in a lot of other situations. It is set up to be more than just some place where you can mouth off and talk smack. IDK.

You guys who hate that comm can totes defriend me over this, I guess. I'll just cry into my pillow at night. 'S cool.

But really. The actual reason I care at all about this wank is the part where one of the awesome-er (I can only say that b/c SO MANY HAVE YET TO BE POSTED) Big Bang stories got deleted when someone deleted her journal due to said wank. BUT! I did find out that my beloved Google has cached it, so I can keep it forever! \o/ I'll have to see if I can track down an email for the author, b/c I really really liked it.

Comments

[stele3.insanejournal.com (from livejournal.com)]

The author in question discovered that a personal friend (or more than one?) of hers had been badmouthing her on that community. I don't know if she will be back for a while, but I know she was hurt by the whole thing and I imagine she's laying low.

The racist comment in question was deleted, which caused something of a to-do in the community, since they don't believe in deleting comments. I honestly know very little beyond that.

I do agree that the community is set up to be much more than a smack-talking place. I have, however, seen it used as such several times (another one of my friends was emailed a link, presumably by someone in the community, to an anonmeme dogpiling her). People, myself included, feel paranoid about their flists and who might be talking smack about them, since that's also happened a couple of times. Which is a damn shame, because there are perfectly lovely people in bandflesh; however, by definition, I can't tell the good from the bad. So it's one big mess.

[clare-san.livejournal.com]

It sucks when shitty people are shitty friends. I guess one of the reasons that it is hard for me to wrap my head around why people don't like it is that I've never ever ever had something like that happen to me, so I keep getting DOES NOT COMPUTE when I think about that kind of shit.

Well, I keep trying to write these epic comments explaining how I conceptualize friendship and relationships and internet interaction, which I'm pretty sure are tl;dr. Suffice it to say, I believe you don't talk smack about your friends (especially not anywhere they could see it), and when it comes down to it, if I'm getting smack-talked and Friend says they weren't doing it, I believe them. ;_; I feel so naive and shit when it comes to this. On the other hand, I've never really trusted anyone I met over the internet with anything OMGHUGE either.

I guess I don't really expect everyone to like each other, and the only parts of that comm that I've seen seem to fall into that category rather than the hate-mongering. But I can see where it would make people nervous.

[kalpurna.livejournal.com]

I have, however, seen it used as such several times (another one of my friends was emailed a link, presumably by someone in the community, to an anonmeme dogpiling her).

Just to clarify: I can virtually guarantee that was no one who considers themselves a member of the community. We've had an unknown angry linker lurking the comm for a few months and trying to stir shit by linking people to threads about them, and we find it deeply infuriating.

[stele3.insanejournal.com (from livejournal.com)]

I... I honestly have my doubts in that regard. There was some grudgewank going on at the time between her and someone in the comm. But I suppose it's a moot point, since it can't be proven conclusively either way, and I don't know the intimate details further than that. And you know your community better than I do.

[clumsygyrl.livejournal.com]

i know of at least one person who i consider a friend (yes, shared my share of cuddles and hang times with and who i've know for almost 6 years) who was badmouthed on there.

the entire community - sadly, i suppose - has been colored by that experience.

anonymity is fine and dandy. but if your reason to be anonymous is to squee about random shit... then sorry you don't have that opportunity to squee with your name attached to it?

but to each their own.

[clare-san.livejournal.com]

:( That sucks. I can see how that'd sour a person.

It's weird. Before this, I'd have said that all anonymemes were ripe for shit, because all I've ever seen were the hate/love memes, both of which I think suck and are asking for the dramamama. And not that this isn't also ripe for the dramamama, they also seem to be doing other cool things.

As someone who is often assholeishly protective of her privacy, I can appreciate the desire for a place where you can go bust out whatever and leave it behind. But also, I'd never be the person to use it to bust out some hate either. (Irritation, perhaps.) There are so many things about this situation and people in general that just DO NOT COMPUTE for me. Man, am I lame.

[clumsygyrl.livejournal.com]

I'll go ahead and paraphrase/quote lovelypoet's response to another person who said that the community wasn't made for THAT kind of stuff and that they'd never link back to a person who was being talked about on the comm if someone was badmouthing them there.

But, theoretically, you can't possibly know who's involved and who's not. You can't ever know who is lurking. You post publicly. You don't *have* to link someone, they might already be there skimming through the stream of consciousness and roleplay and ridiculousness... because it's all fun and games until you turn a corner and get punched in the face. And they'll never know who did the punching.

so...there's that.

[clare-san.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and there is really no getting around that one, is there? I guess I have the luxury(?) of knowing that no matter where I go, the chances of anyone talking smack about me are so minuscule as to be non-existent, and that really colors my perception of things like this.

I'd like to think that my ego is sturdy enough to take it, as my perception of my own awesome is somewhat legend, but I'm probably deluding myself.

The interesting thing that I'm now thinking about is my own trust/no trust lines. I used to think they were pretty tight, as in there are only a few people who I will forever and always believe when they tell me things, but this made me realize that's not true. Purely as a thought experiment, there are bunches of people on my flist who I would be inclined to believe if they said that they were part of the comm but not one of the shit-talkers. But I guess I'd have to be in the situation to see if it'd stick. On the other hand, I tend to believe people, period, when it comes down to it. *thoughtful*

[clumsygyrl.livejournal.com]

Like I said in other people's comments, I dislike coloring people with the same brush, but if you are in a comm that has shittalking and all that mixed in with the squee (i won't get into the whole 'why shouldn't you be able to squee out in the open' schtick) there's no way to tell if you were or weren't in on it.

Being in the comm won't make me defriend you (yet?) or participating, but it doesn't make me like you more either. It's definitely not a positive in my book, but to each their own. Or something.

[clare-san.livejournal.com]

Or something indeed. People, why all so different?

[geneli4.livejournal.com]

okay, i was SO NOT READY to post that comment, and was actually trying to copy and paste to take it to my own journal to just write my thoughts out in a non-public entry instead of here, and i am SO SORRY you had to see it in your inbox. i don't think anyone saw it here, though. i was quick to hit delete! *blushes intensely*

[clare-san.livejournal.com]

*pets* hey, no problem, it happens!

[woebetidesweets.livejournal.com]

I don't either. I guess, with me. I keep my private journal and my bandom journal separate. And I don't go starting shit or talking shit. I mean. We're all here for the porn. The phrase "BNF" is so fucking ridiculous to me. It's a joke, as far as I'm concerned. And if you're gonna identify as one or try to be one or whatever- you gotta be prepared to stand the heat. Like. Hate is what the internet's about. You put yourself out there, you get burned.

This isn't even in reference to this particular situation, or anyone involved in it. XD Tbh, I only know the vague details about what happened. I'm just generally feeling a large lack of sympathy for bandom drama lately. It's such a waste of everyone's time, you know?

[clumsygyrl.livejournal.com]

The phrase "BNF" is so fucking ridiculous to me. It's a joke, as far as I'm concerned.

And if the people being dogpiled aren't BNFs or haven't identified themselves as such is it still okay?

Hate is what the internet's about.

I have a problem with that statement. I don't believe that's what the internet is all about. I'm not trying to start an argument, but I don't believe that's what the internet and how we use it is for that. Or the ultimate purpose thereof.

It's such a waste of everyone's time, you know?

Sadly, this statement is completely true, but when it's one of your friend(s) being attacked? It doesn't seem that trivial. Anonymous or not, shit talking sucks. Wastes of time? Yup. But still sucks.

[woebetidesweets.livejournal.com]

First of all, I didn't mean to sound inconsiderate. You know? Just. Here's how I see things.

And if the people being dogpiled aren't BNFs or haven't identified themselves as such is it still okay?

Of course not. I mean, dogpiling in general, it isn't cool. Doesn't matter who it's happening to. I didn't mean to imply that anyone should be attacked.

I have a problem with that statement. I don't believe that's what the internet is all about. I'm not trying to start an argument, but I don't believe that's what the internet and how we use it is for that. Or the ultimate purpose thereof.

Well, I'd like it to not be that way. And yeah, I've met a lot of great friends on the internet. And I love posting fic and I love blogging about how my cat has a dot next to his nose that looks like a booger. But I've just- been around too long to really be surprised anymore when I hear that someone's feelings are hurt because someone else is talking shit. And yeah, it's totally happened to me too. It's just. A matter of making yourself not care. Sucks that that's how it has to be, but that's how it has to be. When you put yourself out there on the internet, eventually, you're gonna get shittalked. I mean, I'm not being an ass when I say that, because really- I'm not an ass. I'm really not an ass. I hope you believe that. I just kind of- you know, I've been there. And it sucks. I've had friends who've been there, and that sucks even more. But. It happens. Dwelling on it and making posts about how unfair it is never, ever changes the fact that it's going to fucking happen.

It totally sucks. But this is getting so much attention, and just. This shit happens everyday. To lots and lots of people. That's the nature of the internet.

[clumsygyrl.livejournal.com]

Dwelling on it and making posts about how unfair it is never, ever changes the fact that it's going to fucking happen.

It's not the posts saying that it's unfair (and to be completely honest, the people that I've come across that have talked about it, have not once said it was about "Oh woe is me. Life is unfair. Internet why do you hate me?!") it's that people that they consider(ed) friends may or may not be saying pretty atrocious things about them. The not knowing? The trust issue... that's pretty heavy when a lot of people's interactions are based on these relationships.

It's easy to say don't care. Toughen up. Stiff upper lip it or gtfo, but man that break's hard when you've invested some good amount of time "getting to know" people and squeeing with them, etc.

It's going to happen. Yeah, it probably is. Everyday like you said. That doesn't mean that people have to like it. It also doesn't mean that people can't feel indignant about it. As for it being the nature of the beast (internet), well... that may be true too. Maybe the internet is naturally like that.

Again, that doesn't mean it doesn't suck and that doesn't mean that gtfo or hanging around and writing/reading fic or participating in fandom makes it any easier when you have no idea if the person squeeing with you is at the same time threading that you're a complete asshat with no imagination.

[woebetidesweets.livejournal.com]

I mean. We can go back and forth all day on this. I guess my point is, or the thing I'd want to wrap up this up with is- everyone has every right to be mad about it. Yeah. I mean, of course. They have every right to be. But at the same time, that means, when I see a post that says "I don't get what the fuss is", then I have just as much right to reply to it and say, yeah. I don't either. And list the reasons why I don't, even if they aren't the same as the OP's. That's all my reply was meant to be. I mean. It seems like just replying to it is getting me involved with the thing, and honestly, that's not what I intended. I don't want in on this. I'm not personally tied to anyone involved, and I'm seeing it as an outsider. Admittedly, an outsider who's seen a lot of it on her flist today. I'm not meaning to start anything. I didn't mean to start anything, or offend anybody. But I stand by my original post, and everything I've said since then too. I empathize. I even sympathize. But this just. Remains a lot of fuss.

[clumsygyrl.livejournal.com]

Completely valid and fair. I apologize if I've nattered on about it. I guess it was the original "Hate is what the internet's about" thing that got me thinking about it and wanting to respond.

The personal associations with the mess as well got me to think on it. Seeing it on my friends list for the past few days have made me both tired and sad. I just wanted to respond to someone who had a relatively coherent response that was similar but also disimilar to my own.

[woebetidesweets.livejournal.com]

<3 No dude. I mean. I don't wanna- god, just, I've been there, you know? I looked back on my responses and I'm like, Jesus. I sound like such a fucking asshat. This kind of this just always sucks, and it's such a shame that it's still happening. Like I said, I didn't mean for it to come off as insensitive or derisive. I'm just. Tired and sad of it too, I guess. Thanks for not- being pissed off and everything. C:

[clumsygyrl.livejournal.com]

You weren't derisive (truth be told, it's been a rough couple of days for me in addition the wank machine that this bandflesh thing has produced. tired + thinky + continued outside wankery = me commenting. hah.)

Thanks for being rational and coherent in responding with your name attached.

Sorry. It was too good an opportunity to pass up. ;)

[clare-san.livejournal.com]

I the two different journals separate too! Saves a lot of hassle, I think, for both groups of friends. :P

You're really right about the putting yourself out there. Sucks, but true. I like the idea of a place where there is minimal stigma attached to expressing an opinion, but I guess as with all such things, the room for abuse is limitless.

The drama is all such a waste of time. And exhausting. I totally get you on that one.